Posts by Sam Beli

133

HARSH FINAL COURT DECISION IN VICKI BOER V. WATCHTOWER TRIAL

by hawkaw in

jw
friends

i have some unique and troubling news.

i just got off the telephone with scott boer, vicki boer's husband and before that vicki.

her honour, justice anne molloy, has just ruled on the legal cost issue in the boer case.

Sam Beli

This outcome illustrates what Hillary_Step has repeatedly been reminding us about:

"The Watchtower has cunning to burn."

7

without blood transfusion I would be dead

by KiraNOTKaren in

i had a major car accident in '91 and when the paramedics found me i was dead and they had to jump my heart.

i lost a lot of blood and had to have transfusions.

if i had still been a jw (i d'ad myself in '86) i would be dead permanently

Sam Beli

Kira, hope you know that Minimus is kidding.

We are delighted that you are still among the living! Are you familiar with the site WWW.AJWRB.ORG ? There are others of us who have experienced issues with blood similar to your situation.

Congratulations on your survival!

101

Elders - Law Enforcers or Loving

by Jim Dee in

jw
friends

they don't care

they enforce the rules without compassion, dogma without dignity and punish with glee - it keeps the others in line.

they have total control without guideline or being accountable to anyone.

Sam Beli

"I am trying to do a slow fade from the org. ..."

Flower, best wishes to you as you attempt to fade. I too faded over a period of many years. Moving away finally helped too.

101

Elders - Law Enforcers or Loving

by Jim Dee in

jw
friends

they don't care

they enforce the rules without compassion, dogma without dignity and punish with glee - it keeps the others in line.

they have total control without guideline or being accountable to anyone.

Sam Beli

Interesting thread, folks. My experiences are more like JT’s, though perhaps he did make unsupported sweeping statements.

I have known a few (let me emphasize, far too few) JW elders like Hillary_Step. I suspect the HS’ perspective is distorted somewhat. He probably is a kind and caring elder. He probably has a strong presence. His strong presence coupled with his caring approach sweeps other elders along in a positive way; therefore HS’ experiences have been far more positive than what many of us have experienced. At least that is my guess.

What should not be lost in this discussion is the GB direction to new elders - that they learn from more experienced elders. Here is what often happens – it happened in my case too: new elder (yours truly) accepts appointment with enthusiasm wants to help the weak and afflicted. Older, long-time elder, the one that Bro. new elder should look up to and learn from has a harsh approach, says that Sister Afflicted has had many chances, just isn’t trying and to top it all, she has a bad attitude. New elder, mindful that he has so much to learn and so much less experience, in fact he has no experience as an elder, defers to the approach of Bro. Elder Experienced. Oh yes, he has some doubts about this harsh approach, but he looks around and all the other elders seem comfortable with what is happening, so he settles back in his chair and lets it happen. This scenario is played over and over on issue after issue.

The most outrageous display of bullying I ever observed was while I was a teenager. Our CO was a nice guy; so was his wife. As far as I knew he was a caring CO. He invited me to have a small part in a demo at the Circuit Assembly. We were to rehearse in front of the DO. The DO was late, so the CO was having us run through our parts. When the DO arrived he soon began to berate the CO in a loud voice, right there on the stage and in front of all of us who were part of the demo. His condemnation of the CO went on and on. I thought the DO was totally out of place in every aspect of the incident. The CO kept his mouth shut and took the belittling. It was my first experience of extreme bullying within the JWs. There would be more.

One issue that should not be lost in this discussion is the fact that most JW elders, as J R Brown put it so well, are untrained volunteers. Many other religions at least require that their leaders have some training in appropriate skills, including sociology, psychology, counseling, etc. in addition to religious studies. As JT puts it so well, JW elders are often nothing more than cracker men. Some elders are smart, untrained usually, but smart nevertheless. Their smarts can be helpful, but often makes them dangerous. Others are neither smart nor trained. These men can sometimes be the greatest impediments to helpful actions by elders.

Men who could not "make it" in the "world" can become "big wheels" in the JW community. My own dad is an example of this phenomenon. He is a nice guy, but lacks the know-how it be effective as a leader in the business world where he worked for many years; yet he has been a congregation servant and elder for over 60 years. He is a "society man" through and through. His "Bible" is everything printed by the WTS, though he has a way of forgetting the old stuff.

One last point I want to make is that elder body conduct can vary markedly from community to community. I have known many elders who were at least tolerable, but many in my experience have been incompetent at best, tyrannical at worst.

230

Enough of the "World's Most Gorgeous Woman" Stuff All Ready

by berylblue in

jw
friends

.

ladies, i present to you.... .

.

Sam Beli

Ooops, wrong thread. Sorry

230

Enough of the "World's Most Gorgeous Woman" Stuff All Ready

by berylblue in

jw
friends

.

ladies, i present to you.... .

.

Sam Beli

Let me help you ladies out a little with this thread; here is my picture :

16

Witness Dumbing-Down: Getting Worse?

by metatron in

jw
friends

the oct. km contains a four page insert for the theocratic ministry school, as it.

does every year.

the announcements instruct publishers, "the insert in this issue of our kingdom.

Sam Beli

"The ORAL review ( not written anymore ..."

Is this another way of saving paper, ink, etc. and therefore $$$ ?

23

Believers - You need a new revelation to explain this!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

yes ... you heard me correctly.

sometime ago we saw how chimps made tools by using other tools.

we saw how they learned language and could construct a basic sentance on their own, as well as learn to read a little ... well now ... a new study has been completed where monkeys were paid tokens for completing certain tasks ... the monkeys saved up their tokens ... and then they were offered to trade their tokens for things like food, etc.

Sam Beli

" Believers - You need a new revelation to explain this!"

I find such statements disappointing. Why? Because they sound haughty. Is the writer haughty? I have no idea. I am only telling you what the statements sounds like to me.

Am I a JW apologist? Absolutely not!

Am I an apologist of any religion? Absolutely not!

Do I believe that there is some good in some religions? Yes, but too little.

Do I believe that there is some good in the JW religion? Very little.

Do I believe in a supreme being? Probably, though I can appreciate some of the agnostic and atheist arguments.

So, why am I picking on the statement above? It just seems unbecoming, IMO. Most of us here at one time believed or said that we believed in creation. By making these statements in the manner that is often done on this board we are acting like "typical converted sinners." For example, I have never appreciated those who recently made a huge chance in there life acting like an authority in that area and expecting everyone else to fall in line (though I do admire their personal conversion): Smokers who quite and now hate all smokers; recently slim and trim persons ridiculing others who remain over-weight, etc. You get the idea.

58